By Sarah R. Enterline
The following is a transcription of an interview I did for a set of videos in a college Church Leadership training course.
1. What does leadership in ministry look like?
Contrary to popular belief, it’s not glamorous. There is a difference between being the leader, and being the “face”, of a ministry/organization. Leading is less about being the figurehead of the ministry or organization, and more about figuring out the best way to serve those who follow you. Jesus led by a servant-example. He didn’t announce to the world, “Here I am, the King of Kings, Almighty ruler of the world, bow down to Me!” His leadership was driven by humility, not a desire to be famous. Jesus knew His own worth, and He didn’t need to spend His time convincing people to follow Him. He just did what God called Him to do, and people followed. Philippians 2:3-7 says, “Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others. In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant…”
2. How is the gospel central to leadership?
The gospel sets the precedent for what leadership should look like. For example, there’s major sacrifice involved. As the leader, you will work twice as hard as everyone else, work twice as long as everyone else, and usually get less acknowledgement than anyone else. Assume you will be treated like Jesus, and NOT the having-your-feet-anointed part. Jesus is the ultimate leader of mankind, and He made the biggest sacrifice of all. Matthew 16:24 says that Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.”
3. What is the most important aspect of Christian leadership?
I would say there are two: transparency and integrity. People need to know they can trust you. They shouldn’t be following you unless you are following Christ, and if you are, there should be nothing you need to hide or lie about. I have had many, many leaders in my life fall into immorality, and it always started with concealing sin and avoiding accountability.
4. What are pitfalls to avoid?
· Not having accountability.
· Pride – thinking it’s about you. That it is you they are following, rather than the work Christ has done in you.
· Ignoring your family obligations. God comes first, then family, then ministry. Do not confuse ministry with time with the Lord and put it first.
5. What are some “pro tips” you’ve learned along the way?
· Delegate! Oftentimes we can think no one else can do things as well as we can, after all, that’s why we’re the leader, right? But you will burn out very quickly if you try to go at it alone all the time.
· Educate yourself on being the boss. Read leadership books, learn the basics of how to run a non-profit, etc.
· Nothing replaces experience. If you want to lead a worship ministry, begin by serving in a worship ministry. Learn what it’s like to be the drummer, or singer, or the sound guy, because ultimately he is the one who is going to make you sound good and deal with your diva moments. If you know what it’s like to be in the shoes of others, you will be a better leader to them.
6. What would you tell yourself as a young leader?
· Run! (Just kidding…kind of.)
· It is much easier to follow, but not as rewarding.
· That it will be hard, but worth it in the end.
· I don’t know if I would change anything I went through though, because without the mistakes I made, I wouldn’t be the leader I am today.
7. How important is it to remain teachable?
It’s extremely important. I am a firm believer in being a lifelong student. You will never know-it-all, and you will never have it 100% together. There is always room for improvement: some better way to do something, or someone better at what you do than you are. As disciples of Jesus, we have made lifelong commitments to be more like Him everyday we are on this earth. The second we think we are done learning, we stop being sanctified and start backsliding.
8. What is the role of leaders to disciple leaders?
If you think you have something to offer the world, then I think the ultimate goal is to multiply yourself to give out more of whatever that is. You can’t be everywhere at once, and you can’t last forever. I don’t think this is done enough in the church or even Christian colleges today. Pastors and professors are so afraid of losing their positions to the younger generation, that they avoid training the next generation in fear that they will give them everything they have and become obsolete. As my friend Jim Wallace says, the goal is not to have 1 “million-dollar apologist”, but to make a million “one-dollar apologists”. I don’t have the ability to teach every person in the world apologetics, but if I can teach one group of people how to go out and teach apologetics to others, now we’re talking. Nothing will get done if you think you’re the only one called to do it. Jesus knew his time was temporary, and had specific purpose. So He trained 12 disciples to continue His mission after He was gone. His specific purpose was to come pay the entrance fee to the Kingdom of God. The disciples job was to tell the world it was now free to enter.
9. How do you deal with a situation you’ve never experienced/learned about?
Honestly, I would make sure I fully understand the situation from all sides. A lot of times we hear only one side of an issue, and then react without knowing the full story. I have learned to be careful to listen to understand the situation completely. Then, I would take a step back and educate myself on how others have dealt with it. Or I pray for wisdom, or ask for advice from people who have more experience than me. I grew up in the church and have held many jobs in the world, so I’m rarely surprised by stuff anymore. People are capable of anything, and literally anything can happen. Basics: Don’t overreact, and don’t try and solve it in the moment if you truly don’t know the right course of action to take. Wait on the Lord for direction. You’ll just end up doing more harm than good if you don’t.
10. What would you say to women training for Christian leadership?
· Don’t let anyone, and I mean anyone, tell you that you can’t do something because you are a woman. Of course, if you want to be a pastor in a Complementarian church, you might have some issues. It doesn’t mean you can’t be a pastor, it just means you have to go find an Egalitarian church to serve in.
· Build up your self-esteem and your shield, because you will be criticized for everything you could possibly imagine. Make sure your identity is in Christ and not how others see you.
· If you make a mistake, admit it. If you fail, that’s ok. Pick yourself up and do better next time. You are NOT failing the entire female gender if you struggle a bit.
· If you have or want a family, consider the cost. It’s difficult to do both. There will be sacrifices on both sides. Make sure your family is on board with it. And there’s definitely no shame in being a single woman in ministry. I know plenty that have made huge strides for the kingdom.
· Expect guys to “man-splain” things to you. What I mean is, men assume women aren’t as smart as they are in Biblical or theological matters, and therefore, need most concepts explained to them. If you have an opinion about something that is different than theirs, they will assume you just haven’t read enough about it to make a sound decision (i.e. a decision that is the same as theirs). Trust me, even if you have six college degrees related to Bible, this will still happen. Just ignore it or receive it with a smile and a “Thank you” and move on. Oftentimes, they are innocently trying to help, and don’t realize they sound condescending.
· This last one is practical – Dress modestly. I realize this point is controversial, but it will be so much harder to be taken seriously for your brain or your Spirit if your body is all people can see. Don’t make it harder for people to see your spiritual gifts because your physical ones are all they can see.
11. What would you say to men about women in Christian leadership?
· Um, don’t “man-splain” things to them? (Just kidding… No, but really…)
· Affirm the call you see in the women around you. Women are told “no” or “you can’t” more than anything else. Tell them yes for once.
· Tell them they are valued in the kingdom of God and then actually follow through practically. A lot of times, and I see this A LOT in Complementarian churches, Pastors will verbally affirm that women can do anything except be in the pulpit. But they never do anything to practically show that. Which leads me to…
· Open doors for them, and I don’t just mean literally. If you want to see more women serving in the church, then open doors for them to do so… AND…get creative about positions that women can fill in the church. Don’t pigeonhole them into certain categories because that’s the way it’s always been. Maybe there’s a woman that can lead the apologetics ministry, teach an adult Sunday school class, or run the A/V team, you will never know what a woman’s talents/gifts/skills are unless you ask.
· Be intentional about offering encouragement and support. If you believe in them, tell them they are awesome, and then tell everyone else they are awesome. Women will rarely go around confident that people can see their gifts. Most often they feel invisible. So… make sure they aren’t.